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Transcript of Press Conference by Ambassador
James Dobbins Lakhdar
Brahimi and Dr.
Abdullah Abdullah April 3, 2002 Palais
des Nations
AMBASSADOR DOBBINS: Thank you. This was the second meeting of
donors called to address security related projects and issues
with respect with Afghanistan. The first meeting was held on the
fringes of the larger donor's conference in Tokyo, in January,
and this was the second. The agenda was the same for both meetings.
It consisted of the following items: The meeting was opened by remarks from Minister Abdullah and Lakdhar Brahimi, and then we went through each of those agenda items and discussed the programmatic proposals which have now come forward in each area. There were two documents which were circulated in preparation for the meeting and on which discussion focused. One was a paper prepared by the Afghan interim authority. It put forward proposals for the structure, composition, and costs for a national army and for a program of demobilization. The second document was an outline circulated by the United States which outlined the American contribution to the training of an Afghan national army. That paper outlined both what the United States was doing, and equally important, the many things that it is not doing and for which contributions from others were sought. I see that the second document you have available to you. I think the first document should be circulated if it hasn't been, since it is the more important of the two. It contains significant new details regarding the Afghan Interim Authority proposal with respect with its own security structure and the types of international support that are needed.
In each of the agenda items, there were interventions by a number of countries, I think there were 35 delegations present, indicating the contributions which they currently envisage. However it was only at this meeting that the specific budget and programmatic proposals were put forward so many delegations will have to review those documents and come forward with their pledges in the coming weeks. And for that purpose, we agreed to hold another session of the same type, and with the same participation sometime in the first half of May, in order to move from programmatic proposals to specific commitments and program implementation. BRAHIMI: Thank you very much, Jim. Dr. Abdullah has taken the lead in presenting these discussions on the very important subjects of creating a national army, demobilization, police, and so on. Doctor Abdullah, would you like to say a few words? FOREIGN MINISTER ABDULLAH: Thank you. I would like to express my gratitude for the participants of today's meeting, especially to Ambassador Dobbins and Ambassador Brahimi, for organizing this important meeting. In the sideline of the Bonn Conference, there was a security session. The initiative was already taken at that time by Ambassador Dobbins, and Ambassador Brahimi about security. While the international community made commitments in pledges in Bonn, section of Afghanistan, the need to emphasize on one important aspect of reconstruction in Tokyo. The need for a focus on a major aspect of reconstruction, which is to help the interim government to build the capacity for security, was also emphasized. But there it was decided that at a latter stages, that issue should be followed up.
In the period between then and today, we as the interim government, the United Nations Office in Afghanistan led by Ambassador Brahimi, ISAF, the countries in the coalition, we had worked out the framework for security in Afghanistan, and that documents that are being distributed to you show the detailed work we have done so far as a framework for the Afghan National Army, National Police Force, and other security related institutions. In today's discussions, different countries expressed their willingness to contribute to that and we very much welcome. And the urgency of the need for contributions in the security field is not only acknowledged but steps have been taken by some countries and today's meeting was an important step towards that. The idea is of course to hand over the responsibility of security in Afghanistan for the Afghan National Army and National Police Force for some time to come. Today's meeting was a great step forward in that regard. You have detailed framework of that program with you and then we are ready to answer questions related to the issues discussed today. QUESTION: I was wondering if the speakers could give us a bit of an insight on what the other participants in the Conference pledged, in particular neighboring countries Russia, Pakistan, India? DOBBINS: There were a number of preliminary pledges from countries there. Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Iran, China, Turkey, the United Kingdom, all made pledges of different sorts, of training, equipment, and in some cases of money, to support the military and the police. A system of coordination was established in each of the five areas to assemble these, to put them together in a package, to review them with the Afghan Interim Authority, and then as I said to hold another meeting in five or six weeks, at which point we can move from discussion of programs to actual implementation. In the U.S. case, I briefed the group on the request that the administration has made to the U.S. Congress. We have asked for $278 million in additional funds this fiscal year related to Afghanistan. This includes $60 million in the area of law enforcement and counter-narcotics. That would be more or less evenly split between counter-narcotics, for half of that, and the other half would be to support the development of a national police force. We have asked for $50 million to support military training, and that would pay for the training program which is outlined in the paper that you have. We have asked for $20 million in money that could be, among other purposes, used to contribute to the salaries and maintenance expenses of a national military. We have asked for $40 million in additional reconstruction assistance, that's additonal to the $ 290 million we pledged in Tokyo, and $28 million dollars for ISAF, for support for the International Security Force in Kabul. And an additional $80 million in economic and political assistance which, among other purposes, could be used to provide budget support to the government of Afghanistan and support other programs including the demobilization program that we discussed today. This request is currently before our Congress. The coordinating mechanism for contributions was that in each of these five areas, a different country or institution has agreed to take the lead. On military training, the United States has agreed to take the lead and has been requested to do so by the Afghan Interim Authority. On police it's Germany, on counter-narcotics it's the United Kingdom, on demobilization it's the UN Mission in Afghanistan, and on support for the judicial, penal and administration of justice sector it's the government of Italy. Each of those leads has agreed to fund a significant part of the effort of that area and to assemble contributions from other donors. In each case, donors were asked to communicate directly with the lead in that area, and when we get back together again in five or six weeks, we should have a clear idea of how much support will be available in each of these five areas. QUESTION: I have a question for Dr. Abdullah. Sir how do you analyse the current security situation inside your country and what is your target date for estabishing an Afghan Military or Afghan Police? I would presume it would take some time before you can establish these two forces. In the meantime, how do you plan to keep security in your country? What do you think about the fact that ISAF apparently is not going outside of Kabul? ABDULLAH: In regards to the issue of timing for the formation of our national army and national security force, police force, one cannot give an exact time table for it. But there is a need, an urgency in our efforts inside of the interim government as well as the international community. The training of the first contingent of the national army has started and will be finalized this week. And some preliminary work on the police force is also already done in Kabul with the help of the leading nation in that regard, which is Germany. But to give a time table, it is not possible. The issue of the current security situation has improved from the establishment of the Interim government up to now and it has improved in many aspects. But there are still security problems in the country. And activities of the remnants of the Taliban and Al Qaeda groups in some parts of the country are one problem, one security problem. I think from today, until a time that we are all confident -- we as Afghans and the government of Afghanistan and the international community -- until the time that we are all confident about security and stability in the country, that the Afghan security institutions, security bodies can take responsibility. Until then, the presence of ISAF is a major stabilizing factor, the continuation of the campaign against terror is needed, and attracting the loyalty of local forces in different parts of the country and making them a part of the interim government for the time being will help us to maintain security throughout the country. QUESTION: My first question is for the US Ambassador. Could you give us the total figure needed for the security operation because I'm afraid I'm under the impression that it is an exclusively American financed operation so if we could have the total figure? And my second question is to Minister Abdullah. I would like to know if you have received any pledges from Arab countries to assist whether in this project or in other projects and if any of the Arab countries have attended this meeting? DOBBINS: Well, I think it is hard to give you a total figure because it depends on what you are talking about. Are you talking about just the military, or about the military and the police and demobilization and the court systems and counter-narcotics? QUESTION: Military and the police. DOBBINS: The military costs are contained in the paper the Afghan Interim Authority has circulated. And I am just looking through it. It comes to $235 million. Now that is for more than just training. That is equipment, it's maintenance, it's salaries, it's a much broader figure. And Lakhdar just whispered to me that $187 million is the figure for the police. And these are sort of a one year figure. Some of them are not recurrent costs. The second year might not be as much. But those are the initial year. It is certainly not an exclusively American effort. Of the $235 million that this paper proposes for the military, as I mentioned the US contribution, the US request to Congress, is to ask Congress to provide $50 million for training. So there is a great deal of scope for other countries to contribute. To be fair to other countries, none of them had this figure until today. One of the reasons that these issues weren't discussed in Tokyo was because the Afghan Interim Authority had not made its own proposals for the structure and future of its security structures and until people had those figures it was hard to expect them to make a contribution. So I would anticipate that other countries would now begin to come forward based on these figures, with figures of their own. There were some figures from countries today, individual countries, but they tended to be directed to a particular part of the problem. ABDULLAH: Yes, in today's meeting there were the representatives of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, as well as the United Arab Emirates. But Arab countries as a whole made pledges in Tokyo conference in regards to the reconstruction of Afghanistan as a whole, the whole scheme of reconstruction and rebuilding of Afghanistan. Significant pledges have been made in Tokyo conference. QUESTION: I don't have any of the documents so forgive me if I ask questions that are in the documents. Was there an overall sum of money for which you appealed for all of the police, the military, the narcotics and so forth. How many men are we talking about in the training of the military and police forces, and I would like to know in particular from Dr. Abdullah, pledges were made in Tokyo. Your Labor Minister was here and said he hadn't seen a single dollar from that so far. How much worth do you put in these pledges? When do you actually need to get the money, and is the training and everything else that needs to be done on hold until the money actually comes forward? And in fact, if it doesn't come forward for a while, what is going to happen to your country?
BRAHIMI: If I may just give you some of the figures, your questions concerning the figures. We are talking about an army of 60,000, an airforce of 8000, and border guards of 12,000. We are talking about a police force of about 70,000 people. We are talking in terms of $235 million for the army for the current year, and as Jim said, some of this is not recurrent. Some of the money is for refurbishing the barracks. All the barracks have been destroyed. Obviously that will not be repeated next year if it is done this year. About $187 million for the police. For the counter-narcotics, numbers haven't been finalized yet. We are still working on it. It depends, for example, on how many hectares are going to be destroyed. On de-mobilization, there again, demobilization requires projects and development activities, some of which are just starting now, and others which will start in the future. It is not possible to make a round figure on that. But we are talking about something like 70,000 people to be demobilized and helped to return to civilian life. And we are talking about another 100,000 people, former combattants, people who have lost a limb, who have been incapacitated during the many wars of Afghanistan, who also need some kind of help to start living a decent and gainful life in the future. On the other question, that was for Dr. Abdullah. ABDULLAH: The issue of the pledges which were made at the Tokyo Conference: most of the countries which have made pledges have started taking action on them. The World Bank and the UNDP which have assumed the costs of the Interim Government have received part of those pledges which were made there. There were some bilateral contributions in that regard in countries on a bilateral basis as well, they have contributed in terms of grants and other terms. What is arguably needed as of now are contributions for the counter-narcotics program. That program is extremely urgent, since some farmers in part of Afghanistan have already cultivated opium and they will be harvesting it in a short time if we do not take action. The Interim government has taken certain measures to eradicate the crops, but there the contributions from the international community is needed in order to make some compensation to implement those programs. This is the most urgent program. But with regards to the rebuilding of the national army and national police force, and all aspect of reconstruction, of course if we do not receive contributions in a timely manner we will be in trouble, and the whole process will be in trouble, and peace and stability will be in trouble. In today's meeting, it was evident that the awareness is there on the part of the international community, and the interest that different countries showed in the aspect of security was a sign of that willingness and that interest in making pledges into action. DOBBINS: Could I just add a couple of points to put today's figures in some perspective. In Tokyo, the World Bank, in preparing the basic document, assessed the need for the initial year at $1.8 billion for requirements other than security. And they received pledges which met that requirement. So these figures are not out of line with the overall needs. Now in Tokyo people did not earmark money for security, but neither for the most part did they exclude that their contributions could be used for that purpose once programs were established. And so some countries will, like the United States, come forward with new money above and beyond what they pledged in Tokyo. Other countries will apply the money they pledged in Tokyo to programs that have now been identified. Now while it is true that much remains to be done, assistance that was pledged in Tokyo is being delivered. The fact is that Afghan civil servants, including police, are being paid, and they are being paid as the result of the contributions that were pledged in Tokyo, and which have since been provided. The fact is that the first battalion of the new Afghan army will complete its training this week. It has finished its training, and that has already begun under British leadership using the assets of the International Security Assistance Force, and the United States will build on that model and carry that program forward with the assistance of other countries. BRAHIMI: Another point here. Of course Afghans are impatient, very understandably. We all are, because a country that has been neglected so dramatically for 23 years needs everything today, not tomorrow. So the impatience is legitimate, understandable, but I think we've got to see that things are happening. The back to school program on March 23 was first of all, in Afghanistan, as Dr. Abdullah I am sure agrees with me, an extremely moving experience. And on that day, or prior to that day, one 1,700,000 kits have been distributed to as many children all over Afghansitan. And 1.5 million kids, girls and boys, have started going to school. As a matter of fact, we expect that the number will be much higher. Many of those kids, unfortunately, are sitting on the floor because there are no tables and no chairs, but they are in school, their teachers are back, their teachers need training, but their teachers are being trained. So progress is made, but a lot remains to be done. QUESTION: Could I follow up on the anti-narcotics program. I get the impression that the funds are to be used for the eradication of the opium crop. Is any of it going to be used for crop substitution, because I think that is really where the farmers matter most? ABDULLAH: Yes, part of it will be for the crops eradication and compensation, as a way to help the farmers substitute crops. QUESTION: My question is to Mr. Abdullah. Could you please clarify, you had some bilateral dialogue with India. What exactly is the Indian contribution to this whole security exercise? And the second question. In regard to the military training, the police training and the de-mobilization, everything is coming from Western countries which have no link whatsoever with the realities that prevail in Afghanistan. Do you think that this will create a durable solution for a strong security regime in this region, which is completely cut off from the realities of the first world? ABDULLAH: In our bilateral talks with the Indian government, as well as at the Tokyo conference, India made a considerable pledge of 100 million dollars for assistance in the reconstruction of Afghanistan. And in today's meeting, India also expressed willingness to contribute in a coordinated manner with the internatonal community on issues of security in Afghanistan. But of course the terms will be subject to further to discussions and coordination with the leading nations. With regards to the contributions of the international community in leading nations on different aspects, we are grateful to those countries which have taken this responsiblity of leading major efforts in the reconstruction of the national army as well as the national police force. While taking this responsiblity, they have also made committments of major contributions. But the concept, the program and the framework is an Afghan framework, according to the realities of Afghanistan, to the needs of the Afghanistan, and also the realisticness of the program. And the fact that one country is considered as the leading nation in one program does not exclude others to contribute. DOBBINS: I understand that in addition to India, the governments of Bandladesh, Pakistan, Iran, China all made specific proposals today to contribute in the police and or military sector, as did Russia and other countries, but we are talking particularly of near neighbors. It is not surprising that the larger countries are looked to to make the larger contributions, but all of the neighbors and friends of Afghanistan have shown a willingness to participate within this process in creating these new national institutions. QUESTION: Getting back to the Opium situation, if I may for a moment. About the only good thing the Taliban has ever been credited with is the eradication of the opium crop, according to a report of the United Nations narcotics control board. My question is, did they really eradicate it? If so, were there substitution crops? And since the Taliban has been chased away not that long ago, what is the situation now? Has there been replanting? Is Afghanistan again becoming the biggest heroin supplier in the world? ABDULLAH: During the Taliban time, in the last year of the Taliban, they had managed to eradicate the Opium cultivation to a large extent. I would not say 100 percent, but to a large extent. That was during the last year of the Taliban. But in fact what has happened in the previous years they had doubled or tripled their cultivation before that. So that was at that time, but since the establishment of the Interim government, a decree was issued by the Interim government which considered the calculation and the trafficking and processing of cocaine as illegal. But despite that, unfortunately in some parts of Afghanistan some farmers have started cultivating opium. The issue which I referred to before is to deal with the farmers who have started cultivating opium. What to do about it, but then there is of course a long term strategy to eradicate it in a sort of sustainable manner. Nevertheless this issue of opium is a chronic issue in Afghanistan due to the continuation of the work of over two decades, and the poverty and underdevelopment. But once again, the fight against drugs is indeed one about ideologies in the reconstruction, that takes a lot more effort than just law enforcement measures. It takes crop substitution, and the agricultural development, the development of the basis of the infrastructure for agriculture in those rural areas. Rural development programs, education and so on and so force. The Interim Government is determined to pursue it in the short term and the long term and the international community has promised to help us to support our efforts. QUESTION: I'd like to follow up if I may. When the Taliban eradicated, then the poppy cultutivation, was their no substitution crop at all, and if so, what did the farmers live on? ABDULLAH: I think it was only for one year, and no such program was implemented. QUESTION: Just a brief question for Dr. Abdullah. The question of the international community effectively holding the purse strings on the Afghan security forces over the next few years. Do you fear that will also possible lead to undo pressure on you in terms of your security policy and implementation and policing within the country, from external countries outside Afghanistan. ABDULLAH: No, I think the contributions are welcome both by the Interim government and by the people of Afghanistan. As the people of Afghanistan, we all know that we cannot rely on the presence of multinational forces or coalition forces in Afghanistan for our own security and stability forever. The fact is, the more contributions the more happy the people will be. This does not conflict with our interests, or the interests of our people. QUESTION: Two quick questions. The first one to Mr. Abdullah Abdullah. How much support do you have from the provinces, especially from let's say General Dostam and Ismael Khan in the western part of the country, to set up a national security force and a national police as well. Second question to Mr. Brahimi, you were saying that you would demobilize more or less 70,000 people. If I am right, there were about 30,000 fighters in the United Front and about 50,000 on the Taliban side. Does it mean that a lot of former Taliban fighters will be among those that will be de-commissioned? ABDULLAH: There is overall support from all corners of Afghanistan for the Interim government and the political process. You mentioned one or two examples, and they are included. There is overall support from the population of Afghanistan for the Interim government as well as from the local authorities. But that is as far as the political process and the whole program is concerned. On the issues of the national security force, police force as well as national army, I recently held two conferences in Kabul, one where the participants were local authorities, core commanders, division commanders, and commanders from different parts of Afghanistan, from all over Afghanistan. In the other one, there were all governors from all over the country who participated in the program. That concept was agreed upon as a whole by all those participants at those two events. BRAHIMI: You know the numbers, 50,000 or 30,000 have never been ascertained by anybody. What is certain is probably that there was a lot of recruitment since the wars have finished. That always happens in situations like this. I know it from personal experience. Then I think these numbers are reasonably well established numbers for demobilization. And of course, the second part of your question, I don't think there are many Taliban that are going to be demobilized in this effort. (End Text) |
